The Councils

[Elindir]

Long ago, we had this discusion about the High and Low Councils. Well recently, doubt has creapted into my mind about if it is necessary to have two councils. Will having two make things too complicated. But then another thought asks how will we be able to cope when we're larger? At the moment it can be difficult getting hold of everybody to make big decisions, this will get harder as we get bigger. So do we keep with the original plan of two councils or do we decide to use just one? I would really like to hear your thoughts on this

[Tinorfithiel]

I think it rather depends on the work load as the council or councils will be the ones responsible for organising kinship events and running these boards, confirming alliances and keeping all the general day to day running things going, plus helping members when they need help.

We also have to remember that some members may get the game sooner than others, so those who have got the game are just about definetely going to be spending less time here and more ingame.

My basic point is, is there too much work for one group of people, from what I understood, and what I thought might work was a HC that does most of the running, but IF we get too big they can have a LC to help keep the boards under control and help the members and basically act as a filter to keep the HC dealing with kinship matters rather than being overwhelmed with running the kinship in and out of game.

Well theres a few cents worth to get us going, lol. ;D

[The Great Eye]

I have a question for everyone: How much larger do you think we will get? Probably not too large in my view of things. In proportion to other kinships, we are rather small.

So...I would think that, at least for now, a HC would be the only one necessary. Just whilst Eli is away (is that possible? lol) they can work as the temp-admin.

Roughly for the size of the kin, I think that the HC should be approximately a quarter of the members. Depending on the size. So if we have 12 members, 3 of them will be on the HC. And then we have Eli as our main leader person.

That is all I have for now, I will come back later though.

[Uorion]

I agree with Mil. I don't think we will get too much bigger, we may have even lost a few members in the transition between the PKs and the CoP. Even if Eledhwen joins, we still won't be our prior size.

The only thing wrong with Mil's idea is that there are only 8 actual Circle members, rather than 12, so if we were to go with a quarter (that is if we have a HC) then there would only be 2 on the HC.

[Elindir]

*Counts members*

• Me
• Mil
• Uorion
• Tin
• Tali
• Hawkeye
• Eol

[/color][/li][li]Elfdude[/li][li]Switchfoot[/li][li]Acrolein[/li][li]Zeno[/li][li]Iwik[/color][/li][/ul]

That's 7 active and 5 non-active. So since I don't have any volunteers who wish to be cut in half, we can't even consider forming the council yet.

But of course we still need to think about what tasks the council will eventually do, and when it'd be formed. I'm thinking along the lines of when we have about 16 members so there's a long way to go if we do that. Do you guys have any idea of how big/active we need to be?

[Tali]

I'm beginning to doubt the need for councils at all.

If you think about it, and this has been brought up many times, the members of the kinship have plenty of say. Heck, the kinship IS the members right now.

Somehow, I don't see that changing all that much, even as we grow a little bigger. In fact, I think we can still keep this kinship on a personal level, no matter how big we get (within reason, 50 members is out of reason).

What would a Council do? Make hasty, less-important decisions? Well, if they're less important, what do we need a Council for? Besides, I think whoever is involved in the issue at the time could work it out fine, and if someone has a problem with it upon their return, we can discuss it. No biggie.

"Well, Tali, all the other good/big kinships have Councils!"
I, personally, like the personal level. Why put some members out, some members in, and some members rotating in and out? Just keep it simple. Everyone is on the same level, we spread the work, no Council needed.

We can be different from the others, set ourselves apart by not adopting a heirarchy. We're one big circle, not a smaller circle inside another circle inside yet another.

Point is, I think we can do everything without Councils. Hey, if it doesn't work out in the long run, then we form a Council. But somehow I don't think we will have any problems with this kinship.

It sure sounds like Communism, but I think we can prove that it works.

EDIT: And yeah, I know I supported a single Council before. But these are my real thoughts

[The Great Eye]

Well spoken Tali! Well Spoken!!

After reading that, I believe it would be an even better idea. I mean I doubt we will ever get much larger (and do we even want to?) and I like the idea of us all being at the same level (of course besides Eli )

Again, very well spoken Tali!

[Tinorfithiel]

I have to say I agree with the no council, at least for now. I'm just remembering the way the GA grew when the game came out. While it was just hte people who enjoyed hanging out they were fine without a council type thing, once the game came out, people in the game joined the kinship and hen the forums and the size at least quadrupled.

At our current size I do agree we don't need a seperate class of people, but IF we do grow big we ought to have at least some idea of how we are going to manage ourselves.

The only other thing I wish to question is would we have someone in charge of running kinship events say to explore the barrow downs as a kinship or would that be left to Elindir to organise and run or to whoever came up with te idea, or what?

Just a few comments.

[Elindir]

The main reason I think we need to have a council is for the instances when we can't contact everybody. If we needed to make a emergency decision, (I can't think of any examples since I'm new to online gaming ;p) but if there was something we needed to make a decision on quickly and say myself and the heir weren't around, there would need to be somebody/somebodies that could take charge and actually have authority. Although obviously things like that wouldn't really happen until we're actually in game.

Another reason for having a council(s) would be so that the opinions of the kinship can be 'filtered' down. I know that, even at the moment, everybody has different views on everything. As we get bigger it will become even harder to keep track of what the members actually want. With a council, they will be able to look through a long, two page discussion and summarize the general points of what the kinship wants so that the leader can make a decision. I know that oftyen I will read an entire thraed but will only take half of it in I think my memory's begning to go

Finally Tin, in answer to your question I'd like to do a quick example:
Member 'Bob' wants to go on a quest in Moria. Members Bill and Ben agree to go with him. Bob leads the quest since it was his idea. But then they meet Brian, the heir. Since Brian is very important, he takes over leading the quest. Bill, Ben, Bob and Brian go along happily for a while when I meet them. I think going into Moria's a great idea so I join them and now I'm in charge of the quest. But after a while, I realise I don't have a clue where I'm going and decide to let Bob be in charge since it was his idea and he know where we're going
Basically, the leader/heir would automatically override the members if they want to, but if they prefer they can let one of the members lead if they feel that member is better euiped or suited to leading that quest

[Tinorfithiel]

Ummmm, I agree with what your saying Elindir though I do think we probably wont need to really even start a council till we're at least 20-25 members large.

Oh and that sort of quest type thing wasn't what I was talking about. When it comes to proper quests it ought to be the person on the quest or one who knows most about it. I was talking more about things we do as a kinship, non-game oragnised ones. For example the GA runs chocobo races for it's members, and we have members of the linkshell at check points and running it, it has nothing to do with the quests and acctual game, but it's a fun event we run as a kinship, it was that sort of thing I was thinking of. Or say someone wants to explore an area that's been added in an update, we organise a when and where to meet as a kinship to go for a look round e.t.c. It's that sort of thing not the acctual quests. I'm not sure what we might do in that direction but if there is some fun quirk we can put on the game as a kinship, I think it would be a good and fun idea. Say a run from Bree to the Shire, winner gets a BRILLIANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT that someone crafted or something. Of course the route is more hazadous by the fights along the way, but the idea itself is what matters.

Sorry, got a little carried away.

[Elindir]

Oh OK, I guess I was just a little confused

[The Great Eye]

I think I am totally confused. :confused:

But I do agree what at the moment in time our kinship is at, we don't really have much need for a council. An heir may not be a bad idea though, considering our main way of communnicating to a member in a higher position is Eli. In case of his absence(what? Eli gone? NEVER!) the members could still get someone to either change the boards, or edit their posts, etc...etc...

[Uorion]

No councils. Thats what I've hoped for all along. Thank you Tali.

At our current size they would only make things more difficult.

[Tali]

Yes, at our current size. I don't really think we should put the idea that far off, if we really wanted to become a big kinship. But I guess that's just something we'll see in time.

[Elindir]

Although we have a policy of Quality Vs Quantity, we're not exactly a 'small' kinship anymore. For example we were 25th biggest out of 106 kinship in Amon Erebs Kinship Statistics

Although I know that a council will seperate the kinship in a way, it will also make it stronger. Keeping track of X number of members is going to be no small task But don't worry too much, I don't think we're going to need an official council until we're actually preparing for the game release (whenever that may be). But this is the sort of thing I think we need to discuss so we're ready when the time comes. Because when the time comes many of us are going to be too busy discussing other things to worry about the councils

[Hawkeye]

An heir is critical right now in my opinion as I talked about in another thread on our boards. We should at least have a temporary heir in case Elindir is unable to respond, etc... I pray not but we need someone there in case. It also shows we are serious about our kinship to others.

As for councils, I don't really want two myself unless we grow large enough to support such an infastructure. I hope we never get that big if you ask me. Too many get ignored, left behind, etc... if you ask me.

Happened to me in other games so I can testify to it and it's happening to me and my brother in World of Warcraft.

Once council would satisfy me for now but I hope one isn't formed till the council is the minority in numbers amongst the people. Otherwise I don't feel the people can be represented properly.

My thoughts for now.

[The Great Eye]

Sorry I have not posted in a while guys (and gal(s)) My internet went down. Gah! I was so lost! I didn't know what to do! Where to go!? Thank god I am back!!

Anyway...

I also think that an heir is fairly mandatory right now.

Has the voting started yet?

[Elindir]

Sorry to hear about your internet Mil, I know I would be lost without mine ;D

Anyway welcome back :cool:

If you had checked the MEO thread (which you probably haven't had time to yet ;p) you would see that we're starting tomorrow. It's going to be in the same place as the leader votes